King Robert Baratheon’s meal while traveling up the Kingsroad
To begin, I haven’t really made my thoughts on Joffrey incredible clear as I’m lazy when it comes to explaining the runnings of my mind.
Children are a product of two things: their upbringing, and their disposition. These two can work together, or against one another. For example, a child can overcome a tough upbringing via their motivation to be a better caregiver. Or, on the other hand, a child with a good upbringing (which is a very gray area, I understand) can still turn out to be a rotten apple.
As we know, not all that glitters is gold, and not all those who wander are lost.
Joffrey is a product of both — and a failure in both regards. The interbreeding of similar species (such as, let’s say for Darwin’s sake, the Passenger Pidgeon) creates offspring that have heightened features or mutations. Mutations are not a bad thing, they happen all the time in evolution. Mutation is what helps us evolve. However, there are also circumstances that lead to the archaic term ‘genetic monstrosities’. Genetic monstrosities during the Naturalist era were only physical, for the obvious reason that many paths in science were unexplored (and indeed impossible to explore). These ‘genetic monstrosities’, I do believe, can be more than physical.
The simple example of having one chromosome where you shouldn’t, is a ‘genetic monstrosity’. Now before you jump on me: genetic monstrosity is not a strictly bad thing. Just as mutations are not inherently bad. But evolution doesn’t always get things right and sometimes nature fucks up.
Jaime and Cersei are mentally dissimilar, but are closer than the average sets of siblings. Twins share more DNA than is common between non-twins. The breeding of this DNA can (and it is here where my knowledge is somewhat less) lead to a greater chance of heightened mutation. A sort of stream-lining, if you will. It is more encouraged to interbreed different species of the same genera to produce stronger and fitter offspring.
So Joffrey is a product of natural selection, and got the bad end of things from the get-go genetically.
Now, let’s talk about his upbringing. So many of you raised good points so I have revised my theory to include his parentage. With an absentee false-father who lacked any respect for women, and a mother who harbours ill against her gender and wished she were born a man, Joffrey certainly didn’t have the best parentage. The dynamic of having his father disrespect his mother, and then in turn have his mother coddle him, it is easy to see Joffrey growing a bit of a complex.
Cersei definitely took a vested interest in Joffrey, more so than her other children, and wished to shape him to be a king after her own fashion. However, she was not one to ignore her other children (and if I’m wrong here please provide some text to prove me wrong!). In fact she’s often quoted thinking that “All I do is for my children.”
One could also argue that Tommen and Myrcella should be equally as troubled if their mother failed to show any proper affection and their father failed to show much respect. They too, as we have discovered, got the bad end of things genetically.
That Joffrey turned out as such an extreme character is important. He’s not a little off-balance, he is very much off balance. This, I do believe, shows that he is more than a product of his upbringing. He was genetically dispositioned to madness. “But how can you say a child is inherently evil?” I’m not arguing for inherent evil so much as I am for genetic predisposition.
9 months ago with 6 notes
Joff, I think the children did have a good role model (of sorts) in Tyrion, when Cersei let him get near them. The problem was she insulated Joff so much more than the other two, making him somewhat of an extension of Tyrion’s “sweet sister.” I do think the incest has something to do with his madness (idt the Targ’s issues would be so highlighted otherwise), which was fueled by Cersei’s insistence that he’s owed everything he gets. A lot of his psyche comes from this sense of entitlement.
As highly as I think of Tyrion I don’t think he could possibly be a good role model. In theoretical matters yes, in a debate situation when he could convince them and show them what is wrong and what is right. But for children you need an active role model, someone who would be an example in itself. All Tyrion did was whoring. I’m sorry, but it’s true! It’s not his fault, his family dissed him all his life and his choices are obvious. He only becomes politically active when the war starts; that’s also when Tywin notices him for the first time as being worth something. I believe Tyrion was always a nice guy and all that but that’s not enough to be a role model. He did pay for love and for a long time he developed no greater ambitions in life. If Joff was to learn from that he would think of women even less. In Joff’s eyes Tyrion is evil, spoiled, whoring dwarf who achieved nothing, and who’s gonna tell him otherwise? Tyrion?
I get how everyone would like to excuse Joff’s behaviour in some way.. can’t blame his behaviour completely on Cersei (that’s what I lean towards, but I’m very stubborn too, the woman is schizophrenic) and Robert (what a baby, that one; I blame them both); after all, it’s not like Joff was told what to do, he decided and gave commands himself. The easiest way is to blame it on mental illness. But do you really think Joff was a psychopath? He has shown shallow emotions when it comes to empathy or guilt. Egocentrism was something that he was taught. Superficial charm? Tick! Manipulativeness? Tick! Reduced fear? No, he was shitting his pants when facing Arya and Nymeria, remember? High stress tolerance? No, he was a panicking little bitch at any given occasion. Crying a lot. He does turn out to be stupidly brutal and cruel, and fearless (when he order’s to execute Ned) but that’s all because of comfortable situation which he found himself in (being a king). I mean, he was always a prick, but what he really was came out when he became king. That’s why I don’t think he was a psychopath. I think George is cleverer than that. I think this whole Targ coin thing is just an explanation for people having horrible characters because they were raised by horrible people. Ok, after generations of incest Targs can say that there may be something inherently wrong with them and fair enough. But it seems to me that in GoT people clearly don’t understand the influence that adults have on their children. If a child turns out bad, it its’ fault. How unfair is that? Where were you when that was happening? I mean character traits don’t show up overnight. So it’s easy to look for some illness of the mind in the child, rather than blame some lord or lady of bad parenting.. can you imagine? ;-D Or saying: oh don’t worry, you were a prick when you were little, and look what a good lord you became! haha! no way.
“Joffrey wouldn’t have been such a prick solely because of his mother”
His mother, his father, his grandfather, his uncles (including Tyrion) and everything and everyone around ;-) and I think that yes! he was predispositioned to be an asshole. after all, he was born a prince, to be king, in the wealthiest and most powerful family of them all. Cersei succesfully took away everything that he could use as to direct his attention towards (something, anything, jousting?) so he sat there chewing on everything that his mother and father told him.
I’m just thinking.. maybe Jaimie would be a completely different person, providing full support to his house and family, act reasonably and responsibly like an heir that he is, if only they were separated in childhood? After reading ADwD I have a feeling that Cersei stands behind Jaimie’s worst, most selfish decisions, and that includes joining the kingsguard. What do you think?
9 months ago with 0 notes
Lyanna of House Stark and her betrothed, Robert Baratheon, separated by the Dragon Rhaegar
10 months ago with 11 notes
Joffrey’s Inbox, circa GOT and COK
Requested by: anonymous and yourheadoff
Sansa’s auto reply is genius.
I quite like this fan fic I stumbled upon, if not purely that it features a young Stannis
1 year ago with 0 notes
Please, no more Robert crushing on Arya ‘cause she looks like Lyanna.
That shit is creepy as fuck.
imo it’s a realistic AU plot device, since Robert is not only an established lecher with loose morals, but he’s also…
This is not only one of my favourite plot-devices but one the most accurate, I believe. I started off loving the fat old king, he seemed harmless. But reading into Cersei’s chapters you start to see a completely different Robert. I believe his relationship with Ned would take a backseat if it meant he could have Lyanna.
I’m not sure if it is in the fic that’s mentioned here but in one of the fic’s I’ve read that features Arya/Robert he speaks of a second chance to do right by Lyanna. He’s drunk, of course, but he means every word of it.
But I think maybe that’s it - I pity Robert. Truly, I do. Now I haven’t quite finished ADWD so I could be missing some major things and I do hope you’ll forgive me for that, but his obsession with Lyanna is, as I see it, his only motivation. Arya, if she ever does grow to look like her, could challenge the fragility of several relationships.
I just think the dynamic is so… I don’t know, tortured? depressing? but accurate, for AoIaF. But I’m a newb at stuff like this.
1 year ago with 21 notes